and the national interest and threat perceptions are not the same … I personally cannot see any threats in our neighbouring countries or 4m d American

and the national interest and threat perceptions are not the same … I personally cannot see any threats in our neighbouring countries or from the American naval fleet. So why would we keep, or seek such a very costly and very notorious and very bad image, [option of] nuclear weapons. It is useless. Anyway we have no money to do it, and no enemy to fire on. And also we have no capacity to keep, so it's out of the question."