‘Our system encourages people not to behave in the right way’

‘Our system encourages people not to behave in the right way’

December 31, 2011

N.R. Narayana Murthy





What you must do, do it quickly, says N.R. Narayana Murthy, the founder of Infosys, in a year-end interview to S. Raghotham. Otherwise, he warns, in five years, ‘I’ may not stand for India, but Indonesia

What did you think of the discussion on the Lokpal Bill in Parliament?

December 29 was a very depressing day for me. First, we saw India lose to Australia in the Test match. A nation of 1.2 billion cannot produce 11 men who can beat a team from a nation of 19 million people. You can rationalise it in any way you like, but the point is: Did you do it? That’s all that matters. Then, I watched the Rajya Sabha proceedings. I am not depressed about the outcome. But the unruly behaviour, the noise, everybody talking at the same time, that was depressing. It was an important discussion. It should have been done with data and arguments.

As a nation that aspires to be a leader of the world, we have to conduct ourselves in a way that our youngsters can be proud of. I have watched the US Senate and House of Representatives. One person speaks, and there is pin drop silence. Everybody else listens. I think the biggest problem of our nation is the lack of discipline, whether it is the conduct of our wise men and women, or youngsters driving on our roads. If they had conducted the discussion using objective arguments, in a civilised manner, they would have come to a meaningful conclusion.

What are your thoughts for India as we enter a new year?

We are ending the year on a negative note, unfortunately, whether it is Parlia-ment, or cricket. I only pray that God gives us the wisdom and competence to reverse this in the New Year. I also hope we find a satisfactory resolution to the Lokpal Bill, which will make the hearts of all well-meaning Indians glad by arriving at a law that indeed intends to mitigate corruption.

What worries you about the economy?

Even a seven per cent growth in these difficult times is not bad. What is important at this time is for all of us to realise our potential by taking quick decisions, by putting the interests of the country above our personal interests, by demonstrating integrity of philosophy and thought. I hope our parliamentarians, on both sides of the aisle, will realise this and exercise their vote based on integrity of philosophy and thought rather than on the basis of party affiliations. If we take quick decisions, we can grow faster.

The IT industry looks set for a year of uncertainty and slow growth. It’s a part of life, it’s a matter of business cycles. I don’t worry about such things. Difficult days are good, because without them you cannot truly appreciate good days. Why do you think our elders said we must eat both jaggery and neem on Ugadi? It is to say that in the new year, we will encounter both good and bad times, but it is important to take both with equanimity. I am not depressed by difficulties, I am depressed by (bad) behaviour. So what if IT has a good year or not?

I believe that you must do what you have to do, and do it quickly. My deadlines are all in hours. You know, my children complain that sometimes when they say something, it gets done immediately, even before they realise that they didn’t mean it. I am built like that. Unfortunately, we are a nation of apathy. I was shocked to hear from an academic recently that the Bill on a national science and engineering board was passed by Parliament six years ago, and yet nothing has happened. We started debating the Lokpal in 1968!

What are the most urgent reforms needed?

There are so many things that we have been waiting for years. We must decide upon them quickly, whether it is higher education, retail, insurance, banking, labour flexibility, coal for our power plants or creating a fair and proper platform for infrastructure creation. All have to be decided upon as if we have no tomorrow. We have to act as if today is the only day we have to achieve our goals.

Do you see a role for yourself on a larger public canvass?

Each one of us will have to contribute in our chosen areas. It’s not necessary that we all go into the corporate world, or we all go into politics. What’s important is we must bring openness to new ideas, meritocracy, speed, innovation and excellence in implementation.

What do we need to do in 2012 to move away from crony capitalism and sweetheart deals towards a more just and fair society?

We must all learn to live by a certain code of conduct, whether we are politicians or in the corporate sector. The question to ask is: Why is it that we have a system that encourages people not to behave in the right way?

The reasons are very clear. In India, we don’t have a speedy justice system; we don’t have punishment that’s many times the benefit one derives from wrongdoing; there’s no encouragement to honest bureaucrats and politicians. Other societies have done this a long time ago. But we are not a nation that believes in action, speed. I was talking to the CEO of a Fortune 20 company the other day, and I happened to mention the word “think-tank” for some reason. The CEO said, “May I say something. What India needs are not think-tanks, but action-tanks.”

Is there a specific economic mantra that you think we need to adopt?

There is no specific economic mantra. What we need is objective data and facts-oriented, honest discussion, with integrity of philosophy and thought, quick and firm decision-making, quick and efficient implementation. Do these three things and everything will fall in place. We have to improve the quality of people in public life.

So, on those measures, how do you rate the performance of the UPA-2 government so far?

I am not going to give you ratings. But those things that I mentioned are for all of us to embrace. We need a national coming together of minds. There is huge expectation from India. For the first time in many centuries, we have some hope of eliminating poverty in India. This period — the next 15 years — is very important. If we lose this time, we may not get another chance.

Right now the world thinks highly of us, but in five years the world won’t have time for us. As someone said, in five years, “I” may not stand for India, but Indonesia.

What you are saying is important, because we probably have a small window when we can beat even China.

Let us first make this a country where the poorest person has access to decent healthcare, food and other basics. Then we can think of beating other nations.

Do you think the Food Security Bill is a step in that direction? Is that how you would go about it?


If it is implemented as intended, and it can address the basic needs of the poorest of the poor, then I think it might be a good thing.